EP093: How to Optimize the Proposal Process – with Kathryn Bennett
Only focusing on getting things done faster is NOT a sustainable solution for your RFP process. That's why Kathryn Bennett encourages using Lean principles over Agile ones to get work done right the first time.
Kathryn is the Director of RFP Excellence at Loopio, a Toronto-based software company that streamlines the RFP response process for more than 1,000 leading organizations, including IBM and DocuSign. Loopio has twice earned a spot on the Deloitte Technology Fast 50 and was selected as one of LinkedIn’s Top Startups in Canada two years in a row.
On this episode of The RFP Success Show, Kathryn explains how to optimize the proposal process from start to finish, challenging us to test our assumptions about how work is getting done and leverage process mapping to identify inefficiencies.
Kathryn offers insight on data analysis for RFP teams, describing what the winningest proposal shops measure and how to present that data in a way that's accessible and relevant.
Listen in to understand how Loopio technology helps proposal managers access data more quickly and find out how you can benefit from attending their upcoming FREE virtual conference, Loopicon.
Key Takeaways
How Kathryn’s background as a chemist informs her approach to proposals
How the Lean framework forces us to test our assumptions about how work is getting done
Kathryn’s insight on presenting data in a way that’s accessible and relevant
The foundational, intermediate and top-tier metrics for RFP teams
What proposal managers can do to communicate value in an RFP
How to identify and eliminate waste to make your proposal process more efficient
What basic process mapping looks like for a proposal team
The increasing demand for rapid turnaround times in the RFP space
How Loopio technology helps proposal teams quickly access their own data and collaborate on RFPs
What attendees can expect from Loopio’s upcoming FREE virtual conference
Connect with Kathryn
Resources
RFP Success Show EP93 Transcription
You're listening to the RFP Success Show with eight time author, speaker, and CEO of the RFP Success Company, Lisa Rehurek. Tune in each episode to learn what today's capture and RFP teams are doing to increase their win percentages by up to 20,30 and even 50% and meet the industry trailblazers that are getting it right. Let's get started.
Lisa Rehurek (00:24):
Only focusing on getting things done faster is not a sustainable solution for your RFP process. That is why Kathryn Bennett, Director of RFP Excellence at Loopio encourages using lean principles over agile ones. So you can focus on doing work right the first time. Listen in to learn how Kathryn optimized the response process from start to finish and how you can do it too.
Lisa Rehurek (00:50):
Hello, everybody and welcome to the RFP Success Show. I am your host, Lisa Rehurek, founder and CEO of the RFP Success Company. And our guest today is Kathryn Bennet and Director of RFP Excellence at Loopio. Loopio is a Toronto based software company that streamlines the RFP response process for companies and big companies like IBM and DocuSign. But I just want to say, not just big companies, smaller companies too, because I don't want you to get intimidated if you're not one of the big, big guys, but today Loopio serves more than 1,000 world-leading organizations. They've ranked twice on the Canada's Technology Fast 50 list and were selected as one of LinkedIn's top startups in Canada for two years in a row. So Kathryn, welcome to the RFP Success Show.
Kathryn Bennett (01:36):
Thank you so much. It's an absolute pleasure to be here and I'm so excited to chat about how we can use efficiency and lean principles to drive proposal success.
Lisa Rehurek (01:47):
Yeah, we're going to have some good conversation today, and this conversation's leading into a conference that Loopio hosts called Loopicon. It's, I think, the third year that you guys have done this. Is that correct, Kathryn?
Kathryn Bennett (02:00):
Yes.
Lisa Rehurek (02:00):
Yep. And so we're going to tell you more sprinkled throughout this conversation about Loopicon. You don't want to miss it if you're a proposal professional, trust me. The agenda alone have me salivating. I'm so excited to join because the agenda is really, really strong and very diverse. So we're really excited, but before we get into talking about that, Kathryn, I want you to tell us a little bit about you and your experience in the industry.
Kathryn Bennett (02:23):
Sure. So I've been doing proposals and technical communications for about 12 years. I started as a proposal assistant and worked my way up to a writer and coordinator, manager. I've seen about every aspect of the business that you can imagine, but interestingly enough, I didn't start in proposals and this is why I bring a different perspective, I think, than a lot of folks. My first career was a chemist. Yeah. I worked at the steroid testing lab for the US Olympic Committee and the NFL down in Salt Lake after the Olympics. And then I also worked at Department of Defense laboratories for a number of years in the immediate aftermath of school. And I also taught high school chemistry for a little while in new Orleans. So I bring a really interesting perspective on the scientific method and how we can approach that in the proposal space as well. So it's a little bit of an interesting background on my side.
Lisa Rehurek (03:13):
Totally interesting. I just have to laugh at the scientific experimentation that sometimes I feel happens in the whole proposal world. So that analogy is not lost on me. It's pretty funny. And so then how did you get from there to proposals?
Kathryn Bennett (03:31):
I ended up doing some technical writing at a laboratory that I worked at and I enjoyed it. And then in this interstitial space between grad school and career, I picked up this proposal assistant job, just thinking, "Oh, this will fill some time." And then it turns out that I happen to enjoy it a whole lot, and it was a great career to invest in moving forward. So like most of us, I didn't set out with proposal management on my agenda, but I fell into it and I'm very grateful to have done so.
Lisa Rehurek (04:00):
That's amazing what a fun story. I love how you started in chemistry and then got here. So that's pretty fun. That's a pretty fun piece of trivia there, Kathryn. All right. So we're going to just dive into RFP process right off the bat. So for listeners looking to improve their RFP process, where do they even start? What do they need to be looking for? Because that's big, right? It's a big thought to think, "We've got to improve our RFP process." What does that mean? Where do you suggest they start?
Kathryn Bennett (04:27):
Yeah. I think analysis and assessment and spending your time understanding the problem is absolutely key at the beginning of any of these conversations. Because a lot of times we have these intuitive feelings that something's going wrong, but we're not entirely sure what that means. So for instance, maybe we think our RFPs could be done faster, but we're not sure where the pinch in the process is. So if I'm starting a new proposal initiative to try to improve the way I do my work, going to strive to understand it through the use of what's called a process map and that can look like a lot of different things. There are a lot of different resources on how we can build process maps out there, but essentially what it does is describe the way you work today.
Kathryn Bennett (05:07):
A lot of that has to do with going and watching and seeing how work is actually done because we have this idea of, "Oh, this is how we think the work is being done." But there's a lot of work arounds and there's a lot of shortcuts and maybe a lot of non-standard practices that get introduced into our work systems that can compromise the quality of what we're putting out. And so any good and efficiency initiative is going to start with an assessment of the current state and a visualization of what the ideal state looks like going forward.
Lisa Rehurek (05:37):
That's pretty amazing. We find that what's interesting about what you just said is when we go into an organization and we're doing some process mapping for them, they think they know. And they have it in their head and the minute that they have to articulate it, or we have to write it down. Like, all bets are off. All of a sudden they're like, "I actually can't answer that question." So why do you think that is? Why do you think so many organizations just don't know. They think they know that they really don't know.
Kathryn Bennett (06:07):
This is a systematic problem and it's not just having to do with proposals. It's not just having to do with leadership at any certain level. We all like to make assumptions so that we can make faster decisions. And the great thing about lean and agile to some extent, but a lot of these problem solving frameworks is that they make you slow down and test the assumptions that you're making about how work is being done. Because a lot of us, when we kick the document over to whoever gets it next in the chain, we think, "Well, okay, this is what's happening to it." I'm going to assume. That's dangerous.
Lisa Rehurek (06:43):
So dangerous.
Kathryn Bennett (06:44):
Yeah. Again, it's not. Just proposal people. I did lean process improvement at a healthcare facility and the same thing happened with physicians and with folks at the front desk and every step in between. They made a bunch of assumptions about what was happening and those things weren't necessarily true.
Lisa Rehurek (07:02):
That's pretty amazing. I love what you said. We all make assumptions so we can make faster decisions. That one really sunk in for me. That is so true and we're moving so fast to try to stay ahead of things that we're just not slowing down to think through those assumptions. So that's pretty brilliant. I love that. Thank you. In your career, your personal career, what has been one of the biggest game changers to improving RFP process?
Kathryn Bennett (07:31):
Again, I'm going to reinforce just starting with measuring, number one. Number two, data transparency. I think there's this cloud of mystery around what happens with proposals. Like people send the proposal over to the RFP team and then some stuff happens with it and then out emerges this beautiful product. Once I started measuring meaningfully and saying, "This is how many proposals our system can endure, or this is the capacity of our system." And then I started consistently and transparently reporting on our performance and what we were doing to change. Now, all of a sudden my career actually started advancing because I was able to not only articulate the current state of what was happening, but also describe a vision for our leaders about how we might move towards future goals.
Kathryn Bennett (08:21):
So for us, that included activities like having a live dashboard with constantly updated... The information wasn't just updated quarterly or every week. It was on demand. We could actually see what was happening in the proposal space. So having that transparency, not only for your team, but also for leaders to appreciate the amount of work that you're putting in, it really takes away that feeling of being overburdened. And it also brings a team coherence that really changed the game for me.
Lisa Rehurek (08:49):
Yeah. It's interesting when we talk about analysis and data. I mean, our clients tend to just blast over. It's not sexy. So how can we sexify data analysis so that people will get excited about it because it really is so powerful when you've got it. But I know me and just as a small business owner, I know the power of data outside of the RFP world and I know it intellectually, but it's just so arduous and hard. And so I avoid it. It gets hit and put on the back burner until now if the point of my business being where it's at now we've got data and we're starting to get more data and it is making our lives so much easier. And I'm like, "Oh man, why didn't I do this sooner?" And it's so like that the RFP space. So what can we do to get companies to be like, "Okay, this is sexy. I want to know the data because data is fun."
Kathryn Bennett (09:42):
Right. Well, I think a big component of it is there are two aspects of this. One is going to be how you present the data, like the beautiful designs that you've chosen, honestly, that makes it more approachable. And it makes folks more interested in what you're presenting. So we actually had like a fuel gauge for how many proposals are in our system right now, and how many can we accommodate? Which something like five or six a week for two people. For bigger pursuits.
Kathryn Bennett (10:09):
Once it got into that red and it was consistently in the red, folks could visualize. It wasn't just like, "Oh, here's the number." It was here's a stoplight and I understand what that means. So I would try to anchor your visual presentations to elements that folks are familiar with in the outside world and that makes the data more approachable, more understandable. And the second is you only ever want to measure something that will drive a decision. Like you can measure all kinds of things because you're curious and you want to know what's going on, but ultimately, okay, if I am a proposal manager and I want to stop being overburdened, what decisions will help me stop being overburdened? More staff, more technology, fewer inputs into my system, faster completion, better teamwork.
Kathryn Bennett (10:54):
Okay. So how can I collect data that will drive a decision around that? How do I collect data that will justify hiring a new team member? That will justify bringing on technology. And that's how you have to think about it, because if you're just reporting, this is how many proposals we do. Okay. Well, that's great, but I'd like to know how much revenue you're actually driving. I'd like to know how important you are to the business. Because if it's 2% of our revenue, that's dramatically different than 92%, right? Like your voice is different.
Kathryn Bennett (11:19):
And so if you want to have an impact and if you want to have those drivers towards decision-making within your organization, you have to start from the problem and work back and present what you think different groups of people are going to want to see. So your team's going to be different than the decision makers who are in the C-suite. So stratify the data in that way as well.
Lisa Rehurek (11:38):
Yeah. That's really important because any of us that are in the proposal space know that a lot of times the proposal team doesn't get the billing that they deserve. They're like for lack of a better term and for those of you who can see I'm holding up air quotes, "ugly stepchild." They're like they get blamed when they lose, but they get no accolades when they win. Salespeople get the accolades. And so we're always saying how can you increase your value internally so that the C-suite or whoever you're trying to make a mark with sees you and values you and appreciates you. I think that what you're saying there is there's a lot of play there for them to show their value with that data.
Kathryn Bennett (12:22):
Yes. Get the sales leaders on your side. That's a big component of this as well. Once I started educating folks in the sales domain, because there's not a lot of awareness or understanding about best practices for proposals for the everyday salesperson. That's not a part of what's on their radar. And so once we can start maybe altruistically and providing them with a little bit more information about this and explaining the impact that these can have, the ROI that proposals can have, now all of a sudden all look, what's bubbling to the surface, more interest in doing proposals right.
Lisa Rehurek (12:53):
Yeah, exactly. Well, it's interesting too because you guys at Loopicon, you actually have a panel that's going to be talking about the secrets of highly successful response to the managers. That was one that caught my eye because I thought there's a lot of value to be had there. And I hope for those of you who are listening, when you're hearing this and you are that proposal manager, and you're like, "I need more value." That's a session you want to go to and my guess is that they're going to... I mean, I don't know anything about the panel, but my guess is they're going to hit on something like that and more, right?
Lisa Rehurek (13:25):
But I love the conversation about data and your comment that we should only measure what will lead to a decision, because we also can get a little bit caught up in, here's a bunch of data. You're sharing that with C-suite or whoever salespeople and they're like, "Yeah, we don't care about that. That's not going to help us. If I can ask you more granularly, what are one or two key things that you should always be measuring as a proposal team?
Kathryn Bennett (13:52):
Yeah. There's these three categories that we think of data in terms of. We think of the foundational, intermediate, and then advanced data metrics. The foundational measures that you absolutely must think about are the inputs and outputs of your system. How many RFPs do you have coming in? How many RFPs do you have going out? And how many are you actually choosing to respond to based on the go no-go that you have decided upon for your organization? So if you start to understand the ratio and how well that system is flowing, you have the foundations of proposal analysis.
Kathryn Bennett (14:26):
As you move forward in your data analysis, now you're going to want to try to think about how to tie RFPs to revenue. So how do you attach dollar value to the numbers that are coming in? How are you attaching dollar value to the number that you're missing out on? And how do you start to maybe having conversations with your product team or with your service organization, and saying, "Hey we're missing out on a lot of RFPs because we don't offer X, or it would make us more competitive if we thought choosing Y as a feature in our product."
Kathryn Bennett (14:54):
So you have foundational is the numerical aspects, your revenue is that intermediate stage, and then the top tier, this is something that we find in the winningest proposal shops. This is something that is a very exciting piece of data that I'd like to share. The top 16% of data or of a proposal managers in our survey that we did earlier in this year with 650 participants conducted by Qualtrics. We found that the winningest proposal shops are surveying their people.
Kathryn Bennett (15:20):
So what does that mean? They're finding out how satisfied participants are with the proposal process and what those comments will often lead to is the analysis that you need to start your process improvement. Because if the engineers, if the technical professionals, if the legal team is experiencing pain and you ask about it and they tell you, now all of a sudden you have some ideas about how to improve your system. So again, the elite proposal teams who actually have this dialed in, who tend to win a vast amount, more work are considering how their people are experiencing the process in a qualitative sense.
Lisa Rehurek (15:58):
Yeah, and they tend to be the ones that really value their team and value their team as part of the sales engine if you will. It is crazy and you alluded to this earlier, how sales people will cuckoo the RFPs. We don't want to be selling the RFP. And I'm like, actually, it's one of the easiest sales you can have if you're all dialed in. We already know that they have a need. We already know that they have a budget. We already know that they have a timeline. Like those are three of the biggest things to overcome in a sales conversation. And they're handing it to you on a silver platter. All you have to do now is go build trust.
Lisa Rehurek (16:33):
So the more aligned the sales and the proposal teams, I know I'm preaching to the choir and we said it already, but I could get on my soapbox about that so much, because there's so much integration that could happen there. And I think data and that what you're talking about could be really helpful there. So thank you for that.
Kathryn Bennett (16:50):
Sure. And there are some components, if you think about it as well, even measuring how well specific sales members do with RFPs. So if there's someone who is knocking it out of the park with proposals, what are they doing? And this isn't a punitive measure. I advocate against using data in punitive situations, because how is that helping? Ranking your employees? You don't want people to be afraid of the numbers, but if they are pointing towards someone who is really an all-star, what you can do then, is it maybe a deep dive and say, "Hey, how did they build the relationship? Or what pricing structures are they using? Or what can we use to model the rest of our efforts after, and then see if that has an effect on your system."
Lisa Rehurek (17:32):
Yeah, that's brilliant. I love that. I want to go back to the beginning of your career. What do you wish you knew then that you know now?
Kathryn Bennett (17:40):
Absolutely. So I wish that as a proposal assistant, I hadn't just accepted the pile of work that I was given. I wish that I would have thought about the way in which work was being done from the very beginning, because what I did was just try to stay afloat. And I raised my hands for a lot of things that I don't think I necessarily should have raised my hand for. I didn't really ask a lot of questions. I just did what I was assigned. I wish I would have chosen organizations that were more conducive to a curious mindset and I also wish I would have asked more questions. That would have made a huge difference for my career.
Lisa Rehurek (18:15):
I love that. I love the curious mindset. Yeah. I love the whole thought of being more curious. I am not naturally an empathetic person. And I read somewhere the other day that the secret to be more empathetic when you're not naturally empathetic is to be curious. And that is so powerful.
Kathryn Bennett (18:37):
I love that. It's amazing.
Lisa Rehurek (18:42):
Yeah. And so if you do something in a way that I'm just annoyed with and frustrated with, because I think you're crazy. Why are you doing it that way? If I just stop and be more curious about why you're doing it that way and seek to understand then there's probably going to be a bigger bridge there, and then I'll be able to have empathy because now I'll understand where you're coming from.
Kathryn Bennett (18:58):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think that's absolutely key. What a brilliant observation?
Lisa Rehurek (19:05):
Something that you said to made me laugh, because back in my early days of RFPs and I feel like there's a lot of people out there that go through this is that I'm just trying to answer the questions and meet the requirements. I'm just trying to get that done. And I thought that that's what it was all about, but it's so much more than that. And I know I'm tossing some questions at you that are off script here. Not that we're totally scripted, but we always have some guideline questions for everybody that's listening, you know that but I'm going to throw you a couple of curve balls here. What are some of the things in RFP responses that people need to pay attention to beyond just answering the question and getting the requirements, right?
Kathryn Bennett (19:45):
Yes. So the biggest, the biggest, the biggest. How are you communicating value? Because, okay, there's compliance. I think of a three legged stool of proposals. Compliance, which is a give me. You've got to check the boxes on the forums. You've got to get the signatures, you got to get the legal review. That's all procedural. There is never an excuse for not complying with the document, in my opinion, unless there's an intentional reason. There's some sophisticated stuff beyond that but comply. Okay. Second, pricing. Largely out of the proposal manager's control, but it's something we can work together with the sales team to develop a strategy around. Okay. But where does the proposal manager shine? We shine at describing the value of the solution or the services or the product that we're trying to present.
Kathryn Bennett (20:30):
And what do we mean by value? It needs to be a combination of considerations, like price, like speed of delivery, like quality of the service. So a lot of people say value, but we don't really elucidate what that means. We don't describe the specific components. And what it means is does the customer trust you? So do you have a relationship with them and they trust that you're going to execute. Have you described the plan for executing? And do you have methods for holding yourself accountable if you don't execute on time? And then you describe a value proposition that actually meets the requirements. So I think that's where proposal managers and sales teams can work together to deliver absolutely stunning proposals, right? That's the keys to the kingdom right there. It's simple, but it's extraordinarily difficult to execute on.
Lisa Rehurek (21:14):
It is very difficult. I agree with you, but it is the power. I mean, when we have reviewed RFP responses and they're just all saying the same thing, it's boring. I mean, humans are evaluating those proposals. And if you're just saying the same old, same old, and there's nothing that makes you stand out and you're not making me want to. I mean, if you think about, this is a crazy stretch of an analogy, but if you're watching TV and they come on with, I don't know, a Carl's Jr. Commercial and somebody's eating this big juicy hamburger and you're like, "I want that." That's what you want to paint in a picture in your RFP response is to get people to say, "Oh my gosh, nobody's ever done that for us before. Nobody's ever given us that much value. We can't not work with these people." Those are the things that I think that we need to be adding in with value. So I love that.
Kathryn Bennett (22:08):
Well, you could do it with conservative language. I think a lot of times we think that you have to drive value through flashy graphics or a new way of phrasing it. But if you are clear in your presentation, if you are clear in your thoughts and you describe not... Don't lead with your company's accolades and awards. My goodness, I was in a demo the other day where I saw another company doing this and they spent 10 minutes describing their own company accolades and I signed off because I did not care. I wanted to know what the company could have done for me.
Kathryn Bennett (22:39):
So they lost my business because I could read about their accolades somewhere else, unless I'm specifically asking for that, what I care about is what you're going to do for me. And you can do that in a proposal with conservative language and with professional looking graphics that communicate the message very clearly.
Lisa Rehurek (22:55):
I agree. And I think there's a difference between saying we can help you. We do this versus our experience shows us bam, right? And immediately you're just flipping. That's not even a full flip of the script, but you're still showing them that you know your stuff, instead of just talking all about me, but I agree with you. It's like what's in it for your clients. I love, love, love that.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Back to the RFP Success Show in just a moment. But first, what's your biggest challenge regarding your RFP response process? Is it bid strategy, human resources, or maybe it's clunky and inefficient processes? The RFP Success Company works with small and medium sized businesses to improve RFP processes, increase win rates, and provides highly experienced fractional response support. Learn more by booking a call at therfpsuccesscompany.com/call.
Lisa Rehurek (23:50):
Okay, so we touched on this, but I want to circle back again. What is the number one thing you recommend to teams who are trying to make their processes more efficient?
Kathryn Bennett (24:00):
Yes. So more efficient, start with your process map. When we're thinking about efficiency, we're thinking about speed, ultimately when it comes down to it, right? And if you don't understand the steps of your proposal and how the process is actually done, then you cannot improve efficiency. So I advocate for very thorough process mapping at the beginning. And again, I'm sure that there are some resources we can point folks towards with regards to process mapping. To make sure that you understand where documents are languishing, where you're repeating work. And when we think about lean, we have this acronym TOM WOODS, which describes the eight wastes of lean. We don't have to go into what each of them are at this point. But the biggest waste that we see in these proposal systems are time-related searching for information.
Kathryn Bennett (24:49):
So how long does it take you to find the information? Is that a burden? Again, that's an issue that Loopio can really solve because of our library system. It lets you walk in and put your hand on the piece of information that you need instead of digging through piles of data. So you do your process map and then you look at the wastes that are occurring. How many times are you reworking something? How many reviews, like you have to stop reviewing. At some point you have to. The endless RFP review cycle drives me up a wall. Like you have touched in enough. If you're not capable of reviewing, or if somebody doesn't understand the steps in a review, you need to address those instead of continually reviewing over and over and over again. That's wasteful. Okay. So the idea of lean, it's always just ruthlessly eliminate waste using...
Kathryn Bennett (25:33):
So we identify what they are, and then we say, "How can we slash this waste?" Do we need to train people on how to do better reviews? Do we need to organize our systems so it's faster to find the data? Do we need to set up policies so that we can move the document to the next step faster, or make sure that people have different understandings, but the root of all of it, again, process mapping, understanding what's actually happening. And we advocate this. There's a concept called Walking the Gemba in lean, which simply means go to where the work is done.
Kathryn Bennett (26:02):
So if I'm an executive sitting up in an office describing how proposal work has done, I'm probably not going to actually know what happens. I need to go watch. And people will tell you, people will describe their work in a way, and this isn't bad. I'm not blaming anybody, but I describe my work in a way that makes me look good.
Lisa Rehurek (26:20):
Absolutely.
Kathryn Bennett (26:20):
Proposal managers are going to describe their work in a way that makes them look good. They are victims of systems. They're not being lazy. Okay. So it's like one out of 100 people in the world that are actually lazy, but 99 out of 100 are trying to do their work and they're on the struggle bus. But they're going to describe this in a way so that they don't look like they're going to lose their job. So what we have to do is we have to eliminate blame and we have to actually go watch the work being done. And then we have to say, "Okay, we're going to make your life easier by eliminating some of this waste." I think those are all really critical steps to getting that efficiency, motor running.
Lisa Rehurek (26:54):
If you don't mind, I want to take a step back and go to basic process mapping. So for a listener, who's like, "I am a proposal manager, or even I'm a business owner or a managing director, business development director and I don't really know the process. How do I just very simply go back and start a process map?" I mean, it's as simple as saying, "All right. What is the very first step that you do? And then what is the next step you do?" And is it that simple or is there more to it than that?
Kathryn Bennett (27:23):
No process maps can be very complicated. If you think about how a car is made, the process map for that is very complex. But if you think about... you could even process map, imagine paying at a restaurant. Describe what happens when you pay at a restaurant. You get out your wallet, you look at the ticket, you put cash in. Now there's a different workflow, as opposed to if you put a card in, right? So that's like a decision point. And so in the instance where you say cash, no change. Now the waitress doesn't have any more work to do. That's the most efficient way that you can pay, but if you do the card and then you have to split checks. Now you're introducing complexity into the system. There's lots of different ways of understanding that.
Kathryn Bennett (28:06):
But if you think of just your everyday life and what steps do you take when you wake up in the morning, what steps do you take when you start your car, breaking it down to that level of granularity may seem almost like infantilizing the process, but it's absolutely necessary to understand each individual component. Because without that deep understanding, you can't start making useful change. This will probably engage multiple stakeholders. And also I would not look at the whole system at once. Just look at what you can control to start. Like what happens in the demo? What happens in the interview? If you don't have any influence over that, don't sweat it.
Kathryn Bennett (28:41):
Let those people manage that for now, but stay in your sphere of influence and thoroughly describe different types of processes that happen. Maybe you've got different verticals that you address or different types of RFPs that come in, what do you do with an RFP versus a security questionnaire, right? And so gaining those understandings, it doesn't have to be complicated at first, but it does make sense for us to look on a granular level so that we can really start effecting change.
Lisa Rehurek (29:07):
And I think too, that it's going to feel really simple for anybody that's an expert in that area. It feels like you're again, air quotes, "dumbing it down." But I always tell people who write those dummy books like [inaudible 00:29:22] for Dummies. There's a dummy book for everything because we're all a bunch of dummies if we're not the expert in it. And so you have to put yourself in the dummy shoes to think through that process because you're really close to it, but it's really powerful. It also helps with onboarding new staff and there's so brilliance too, that it's not just about finding efficiency.
Lisa Rehurek (29:45):
Well, it's finding efficiencies in the training process too, but finding consistencies and efficiencies. So it's really, really great stuff. I love, love, love this conversation. So I'm going to throw you another curve ball here because I know at Loopicon and I think this might be one of the keynote talks that you guys are going to do, but it's all about the future of the response industry and what's coming and how things have changed. And things have absolutely changed since the pandemic, right? What are some things that you've seen from a technology perspective or not just any perspective in the RFP world that has been different and or that you see as a trend coming up for, without giving away the keynote, because we want people to come to the keynote. What do you see in the future trends?
Kathryn Bennett (30:33):
Okay. There's a couple things. First, I see the advent of bots on the buyer side. It's a very interesting concept. So procurement teams, just like we, as sellers are trying to improve our own efficiency. The buyers are trying to improve their own efficiency too. So thinking about the ways in which technology influences the buying side of our activities really has a lot of future potential. That's a much longer term and that's me editorializing a little bit. The keynote, I think really is more focused on the fact that we have speed challenges that are arising in a lot of different industries. Folks want to buy now. So how do we make our responses faster? And in this digital age, now we're not as hampered by the feeling of having to have a hard copy document. Although we're seeing some government agencies shift back to the hard copy, which is...
Lisa Rehurek (31:24):
Oh, no.
Kathryn Bennett (31:25):
I know.
Lisa Rehurek (31:27):
Yeah, so we're still all electronic. We're like, "Please stay that way."
Kathryn Bennett (31:31):
I've heard anecdotal evidence that that shift is happening again. "Oh, we have legal requirements, no stop to stay electronic, please, please. For the proposal managers who have the 60 pound printer sitting in their home, please just stay electronic." But we are seeing an increasing demand for rapid turnaround and that's not only in the proposal space, but also in security questionnaires and DDQs. When we decided we want to buy, we're pulling the trigger and we want to go. So how do we make sure that we have that information staged and ready to deliver to the customer in the best way. Those eight weeks, 12 weeks of being able to really dial in that message, boy, those days are on their way out in my opinion. We have a lot that we need to think about from that perspective.
Lisa Rehurek (32:14):
Yeah. I think there's going to be a lot coming down too, because I know we do a lot of work in the state local misled arena and they extended contracts. They put things on hold and for sure in 2021, we saw that start to open back up again, but I still feel they're holding back, and I think there's going to be just a flood of opportunities. And there's just new ways that people are doing things that... I think there's going to be a flood of opportunities out there, shorter timeframes to your point. And thus, they need some technologies too. Tell us a little bit about Loopio. We haven't really talked about your technology and what it is that Loopio provides for your clients.
Kathryn Bennett (32:54):
Sure. So I'm actually a former user of Loopio. I was a customer for two years at my previous role, which is why I love it so much. I'm so happy to talk about it. Loopio is a content management and proposal workspace that allows users to quickly leverage information that they want to include in RFPs instead of having to search through giant stacks of digital data. I'm sure we've all had to do at some point. We use a very trustworthy automation engine and search engine to help customers quickly access their own data from current and previous projects and approved content.
Kathryn Bennett (33:30):
Furthermore, we have a really great set of project management tools and a complete workspace that helps provide collaborative efforts for your proposals. So instead of version one sent back by Dave and version two sent back by Mary, you ended up having a centralized repository where you can just complete your work in the same place with a collaborative team and not have to worry about so many of those proposal woes. So I found that it cut between 32% and 35% off the time that I would spend on an RFP on average. And in fact, one time I turned around a proposal in 30 minutes, thanks to the technology at Loopio. Yeah. So 10 out of 10, highly recommend. It's worth checking out.
Lisa Rehurek (34:12):
Yeah. A technology like that is so important when you've got any significant amount. I don't know if this is a loaded question, but at what volumes should a company invest in that a technology? I mean, I know for me in back in my corporate days, in the early days, we kept all of our experience in a word document and it became like 60 some pages long. And at some point you just can't find anything anymore. So is there a volume criteria?
Kathryn Bennett (34:43):
Yes, typically. So there's a couple of different dimensions that we think of when we say, "Hey, it's time to bring a software on board." We're typically looking at teams that have about 75 RFPs a year. So if you're between 50 to 75, now like one a week, probably a good idea to think about bringing some software on board, probably good time to start thinking about hiring a dedicated proposal resource. A proposals manager or somebody who specializes in this for your team. And then also we would think about once proposal start reaching 30% to 40% of your revenue for your company, then maybe a dedicated resource that some kind is also appropriate.
Kathryn Bennett (35:19):
So that's when we start recommending a startup maybe in their first year. Who knows if this makes sense, but as you start becoming more sophisticated, as you start running into those problems, although frankly, building out your content repository using Loopio and Seismic from the beginning, imagine if you didn't have those challenges. Yeah. So I should redact that. If you started from the beginning, you wouldn't have the challenges that so many of us as entrepreneurs have faced with our contract management.
Lisa Rehurek (35:45):
Yeah. Well, that's what I'm thinking because I have clients will be like, I think you talked about that in the state of Hawaii. Go back to the state of Hawaii or the City of Roseville. It was in that proposal. I think it was that one, but maybe it could have been in the Idaho Department of Education. I can't remember. So you're like, "Oh my gosh, you're spending so much time digging around and looking for things." There's obviously a trade off of investment there, but when you said 75, I'm like, "Oh man, I know companies that bid on 20 to 25 that he need a much more streamlined service." So it probably does depend on worth having a conversation. Here's what I want to say about, I want to circle back to Loopicon.
Lisa Rehurek (36:24):
So there's not a ton of learning resources out in the world. I mean, APMP, which is the industry association puts content out there. And then there's a few things here and there, but to find a really valuable learning opportunity for people in this profession, or even if you're a business, a mid-market businesses. Maybe you're not a full-time proposal person, but you dive into it every now and then. There are sessions here for you. So Loopicon coming up September 28th and 29th, it is 100% free, which is crazy, but 100% free.
Lisa Rehurek (37:05):
It is digital. So it's virtual. And I'm just going to tell you, loopio.com, it'll be in the show notes, but Kathryn, I want you to tell us a little bit more about what people can expect at Loopicon because I looked at the agenda and I'm a little bit biased because I'm on one of the panels, but I am really excited for this and I sent it to my team and said, "You guys need to check this out. There's a ton of really great value here." So tell us more about your perspective.
Kathryn Bennett (37:30):
Sure. So we have three great tracks this year that I think will really serve the entire spectrum of folks who engage with proposal teams or with proposals in a different context. So we have the tools and technology tracks which help you understand more about how organizations like Loopio, like Seismic. And so like some of our other value technology vendors can provide you with the answers and solutions you need to actually get the work done. So there's a whole best practices, tools and technology track.
Kathryn Bennett (37:58):
And then we also have activities. The other two are winning the work and advancing your career because, well, I know yep. See, advancing your career, one is always getting a really good response. So winning the work, of course, we have proposal professionals, we're talking about how to measure. I'll be doing a seminar about the top 22 metrics that we think every proposal manager should use. And we'll talk about how to actually implement those. But the career track talks about how to know when it's time to hire, where you should hire from, how you can develop the skills that will promote your future success, and even have some DEI focused seminars about how to be more inclusive in your language as you're speaking in your proposal contexts. So it's a very exciting upcoming seminar and we also have The Second City Toronto, which is a comedy group, and they're going to be doing an RFP themed comedy show.
Lisa Rehurek (38:55):
Oh, my gosh. [crosstalk 00:38:56]
Kathryn Bennett (38:57):
So if for no other reason come for that. It'll be amazing.
Lisa Rehurek (39:01):
Yeah. That's one of those things that you probably need to save the recording of for when you've worked three days in a row till 3:00 AM, and you need a little comic relief. How fun? What a great thing to include. I love that.
Kathryn Bennett (39:14):
And of course, we'll have great keynotes from Erica Dhawan who is a Zoom body language expert to help you understand how to present yourself really personably on digital media. We have Neil Pasricha who is a happiness expert. He's going to come talk to us. And then our CEO and CTO will be providing excellent updates about the state of the market and about the trends that they're seeing in technology. And we have a few features that we'd like to put in the hands of our Loopio folks that I think will really be game changers for the industry. So come and learn about those.
Lisa Rehurek (39:44):
How fun. It sounds super exciting. I am excited and I really get excited about going to conferences. So I'm very excited about a lot of the content myself. All right. That's loopio.com. It'll be in the show notes, loopio.com. If you want to learn more about Loopio, Kathryn, what if they want to connect with you personally? Can they do that like on LinkedIn?
Kathryn Bennett (40:07):
Oh, heck yes. I am on LinkedIn. It's just Kathryn Bennett writes is how you can find me. That's my URL or I am the first one that comes up if you just Google search my name. So a Google search, Kathryn Bennett. Link me on LinkedIn. I'm an SEO expert. So I made that happen.
Lisa Rehurek (40:22):
I know. I'm sitting here like real or turning simple is that?
Kathryn Bennett (40:28):
I don't even know. I Googled myself one day and I was like, "What? So yes. So Kathryn Bennett on LinkedIn. I'm all over there doing some great TikTok videos about proposal management. So you can check me on TikTok at @the_rftea. So that's RFTEA like spilling the RFT.
Lisa Rehurek (40:47):
Oh, no it's funny.
Kathryn Bennett (40:48):
So you follow or find me on email kathryn.bennett@loopio.com. I'm absolutely here to support whoever needs assistance in the proposal realm.
Lisa Rehurek (40:59):
Well, you're full of great information. Even before we started recording this session, you and I had a great conversation. I was like, Oh, this is going to be a fun interview for sure. Any last thoughts or words of wisdom for our listeners?
Kathryn Bennett (41:13):
I am so excited to be presenting the ideas around measurement in proposal management. We talk so much about content. We talk so much about persuasive writing, and I think that if folks adopt measurement strategies and these efficiency methods that we have presented today, they're not only going to elevate their own department, but also elevate their own career paths. Why not be a chief executive in sales with a proposal background? Be audacious, go forth and do it.
Lisa Rehurek (41:42):
All right. That's such a great heck yeah. An empowering message, Kathryn. Thank you so much for being here. We greatly appreciate your time and looking forward to seeing more at Loopicon. All right, everybody. Thank you for listening. Again, I'm Lisa Rehurek. This has been the RFP Success Show. If there is anybody that you know needs to be listening to this, make sure you share it with them. We want to spread the word and we certainly want to spread the word about Loopicon. Thanks again for being here. We'll see you next time around.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
This has been another episode of the RFP Success Show with Lisa Rehurek, eight time author, speaker, and CEO of the RFP Success Company. Thank you for joining us. If you have feedback on today's episode, email us at podcast@rfpsuccess.com. No matter your business size, industry. If you have an in-house RFP team or need outside support, the RFP Success Company helps increase RFP win ratios by 10, 20 and even 50%. Learn more at therfpsuccesscompany.com.