EP101: How to Build Your Brand & Win More Sales – with Michael Zipursky
When you write an RFP, you’re not just competing on qualifications and capabilities. In fact, everyone who’s bidding can answer the questions from a technical perspective.
But you can differentiate yourself with a strong brand and tell the story of what sets your business apart throughout a proposal document.
Michael Zipursky is the Cofounder and CEO of Consulting Success, a firm that specializes in helping consultants grow profitable, scalable and strategic businesses.
Michael has more than two decades of experience as a serial entrepreneur and consultant, advising global organizations such as the Financial Times, Dow Jones and the Royal Bank of Canada. Over 35,000 consultants read his weekly newsletter, and he’s coached 500 consultants from around the world in building six- and seven-figure businesses.
On this episode of the RFP Success Show, Michael explains how to think about branding as consistent messaging that speaks to your ideal clients, describing what it looks like to weave your brand story into the text of an RFP.
Michael offers advice on building authority when you’re first starting out and reflecting authenticity in an RFP—even if you’re on the proposal team for a large, established company.
Listen in for Michael’s top three signs that your branding needs work and learn how to leverage your brand authority to win more sales with RFPs!
Key Takeaways
How Michael thinks about branding as the way you tell your story
What it looks like to weave your story into the text of an RFP
Why it’s crucial to illustrate your strengths through case studies and use language that conveys confidence in an RFP
Why Michael suggests focusing on the value you provide rather than price
How to build credibility in the marketplace when you’re just starting out
What it means to build authority by sharing your knowledge and expertise with ideal clients on a consistent basis
What Michael has learned about connecting through vulnerability and building a business around what your community needs
Michael’s response to business owners who ‘don’t have time to market’
How to reflect authenticity in an RFP if you’re on the proposal team for a large, established company
Michael’s top 3 signs that your brand needs work
1. It’s not specific enough
2. Your message isn’t clear
3. It isn’t memorable
Connect with Michael
Resources
RFP Success Show EP101 Transcription
You're listening to The RFP Success Show with eight time author, speaker, and CEO of The RFP Success Company, Lisa Rehurek. Tune in each episode to learn what today's capture and RFP teams are doing to increase their win percentages by up to 2030 and even 50%. And meet the industry trailblazers that are getting it right. Let's get started.
Lisa Rehurek (00:24):
Well, hello everybody, and welcome to The RFP Success Show. My name is Lisa Rehurek and I am your host. I am founder and CEO of The RFP Success Company. So today's guest I want to introduce you to is Michael Zipursky. Michael is the CEO and co-founder of Consulting Success, where they specialize in helping entrepreneur consultants grow profitable, scalable, and strategic consulting businesses. So Michael, welcome to the podcast.
Michael Zipursky (00:51):
Hey Lisa, thanks so much having me and great to be with you.
Lisa Rehurek (00:54):
Yeah. So this is really exciting, everybody. So here's what we're going to be talking about today. We're really going to be talking about how to build your brand and authority and win more sales. And yes, an RFP of course, is a tool to get the sale. The great thing about Michael is that we're going to be having some conversations about how to do this, even when you're uncomfortable with sales and marketing. We deal with that all the time in RFPs, where we've got these technical writers that hate when we try to put a little bit of a sales or marketing spin on it. So it's going to be a great conversation.
Lisa Rehurek (01:25):
I also want to have Michael on because he hosts a podcast called Consulting Success. If you don't know about it, especially you consultants out there, make sure that you go look it up. It's one of my favorite podcasts, and it's really great. There's a lot of amazing information. So it's fun for me, the little fan girl to have Michael on my podcast here. So, Michael, I just want to kick it off by asking you how you got into this and a little bit more about your background.
Michael Zipursky (01:55):
Yeah, so we have to go back almost 23 years ago is when I started my first consulting business with my cousin, Sam who's my co-founder today, at Consulting Success. We've built and run and sold multiple companies over the years together, but most of those companies were consulting a professional services businesses. One of them, we started in Vancouver, Canada. I ended up going over to Japan and opening up the branch office for that company, had the honor of pleasure of working with some very large organizations like Sumitomo and Dow Jones and Financial Times and Panasonic and a whole bunch of others.
Michael Zipursky (02:28):
So fast forward, we were building these consulting businesses, but what we really wanted to start doing was being able to run our business online so that we could be anywhere, work from anywhere. We've always both enjoyed this idea of traveling and freedom. And so we started as a bit of a side project, a blog, a place where we could share our experiences of what was working. Stories from the trenches of being consultants. The good, the bad, the ugly and certainly we had a lot of experiences where we wish, "Oh, I wish I would've known that earlier on and so I wouldn't have made that mistake."
Michael Zipursky (02:58):
And so we were very candid and open in sharing what was working for us and what wasn't. We had a real following, a real community that was starting to build around what became Consulting Success. And people said, "Hey this is really great information. Do you guys have a course that could help me to become a more successful consultant?" And we said, "No, we don't but we'll create one." And so we did, and that went very well. And then people said, "Hey, this is a really great course. My business moving along. I've added a bunch of additional revenue. Is there a way to work more closely with you? Do you have a coaching program?"
Michael Zipursky (03:25):
We said, "No, we don't but we'll create one." And so here we are fast forward, about 13 years into running Consulting Success really focused on, as you said, helping entrepreneurial consultants to grow successful consulting businesses. We've had what 600 plus consultants come through our Clarity Coaching Program and several thousands more go through our trainings and workshops that we do at Consulting Success.
Lisa Rehurek (03:48):
That is so amazing. I just realized too, that our company names are very similar. Consulting Success, RFP success. I didn't even catch that before. So in your past, was it all about branding and marketing and sales? Is that most of your history in consulting?
Michael Zipursky (04:05):
So two of the companies that we had were in the design marketing space. So we started off doing web design development. Then we had another company that was called Kankei Culture. Kankei is the Japanese word for relationships. So it was essentially relationship culture where we're very big believers. One of our values is la familia. It's all about family. It's all about relationships and building together.
Michael Zipursky (04:25):
So that business, Kankei Culture was a branding and design marketing agency, so that we were very focused on the power of the visual brand and later how to really take even not just the visual side, but to make sure that your brand really represents what you want to communicate to the marketplace. So I am not a designer. Sam is a designer by trade, but I've always been a big believer in the power of branding.
Lisa Rehurek (04:49):
Yeah. That leads me to really my first meaty question here, which is most people think about branding as my logo and the colors and all the fun bells and whistles. I'm sure some of our listeners are saying, well, what does this have to do with sales? Can you talk a little bit about why branding is important and then subsequently tie it back into how it ties into sales? I would love that.
Michael Zipursky (05:16):
For sure. I mean, the way that I see it, and I certainly don't consider myself to be a branding expert. I just know what we've done across many companies and what we've seen to work and what we're still seeing to work better these days, as opposed to the past. And that is the branding, the way I look at it, it's how people think about you or talk about you when you're not there. How do they remember you? And so the more that you can tell your story, the more that you can communicate consistently, that is essentially how build your brand.
Michael Zipursky (05:43):
If people see your logo over and over, that's one thing. But if they see your logo over and over and they can associate that to a specific feeling, or to solving a problem, or to a result that they desire that becomes significantly more powerful. So I think everything that we do in our businesses, whether it's our website, our logo, our colors, but even more importantly, the messaging that we create, the messaging that we put that we put out there into the marketplace that can really speak to an ideal client.
Michael Zipursky (06:10):
And that helps them to feel that you are right for them, that you understand their situation, that you are empathetic to them, and you have helped people like them to solve the kinds of problems that they have. And to achieve the results that they desire. That's really where your brand starts to become very powerful and much more memorable. So that's how we look at it at a high level.
Lisa Rehurek (06:28):
Well, I think your background and experience absolutely contributes to you being an expert. So you said, "I don't think I'm a branding expert." But I'm pretty sure you are just so you know. The whole thing about branding, what's interesting about what you just said is that when we're having a conversation about sales or when we are writing, as we do an RFPs, a sales document, I love what you said there about, you've got to tell a story and that that's how they're going to remember you and pay attention to you.
Lisa Rehurek (06:58):
So how do you reconcile having to give technical specs around what we can do for you? And yes, we can actually do what you're asking and weaving in that story and those messages about how they can also trust you as a partner.
Michael Zipursky (07:16):
Yeah. I mean, the narrative, the story that you tell that that is ultimately what will differentiate you. So in any document, whether it's a proposal, a more formal RFP, if you're just putting technical information, if your language is just the same as everyone else out there, then you're playing at the commodity level. And that becomes very difficult because then it really becomes a race to the bottom and the decision making party is going to look at who's cheaper if everything looks the same.
Michael Zipursky (07:44):
So the way that you differentiate yourself, the way that we've seen that can work very effectively is to ultimately tell a story to bring in more examples of success, to show the people that are reading that RFP or reading that proposal, that you understand the situation that they AR in, and you can guide them to see things that they likely haven't even considered before. So you might know that you're going to be going up against a much larger competitor.
Michael Zipursky (08:08):
Well, what's wrong with that larger competitor? What story can you tell? What seed can you plant in the mind of that ideal client of that decision making body or authority or group of people to help them to see that, yeah, typically larger organizations, yes, they are larger, but the downside of that is that you're going to be paying much higher fees for junior people to be working on your project, or you're going to be paying for the headcount infrastructure that they have.
Michael Zipursky (08:30):
We are a smaller boutique. We are. So you want to play to your strengths and not try and compensate for your weaknesses. And the way that you do that is by telling your story and communicating the message. So it's very important to be clear on what is your advantage, what is the true differentiation and then finding stories and examples that you can bring in to your messaging and into your communications.
Lisa Rehurek (08:54):
This is such a great conversation too, and I love your statement about race to the bottom. Because one of the things that we tell our clients with RFPs is that you're not just competing on qualifications and capabilities. Everybody that's bidding on this RFP is going to be able to answer the questions from a technical perspective. But it's a fight to get people to understand that. Do you have any tricks for how our listeners can help their leadership and I would say their subject matter experts understand that it's more than just that piece.
Lisa Rehurek (09:28):
And you said it, but I want to call this out separately for a little bit of a discussion, because it is generally a fight with the technical folks to say, "We need that salesy piece." Because they feel a little bit like, "Ooh, we don't want it to feel salesy. We don't want it to be sleazy." What would you say to that?
Michael Zipursky (09:46):
Yeah. So I think when done correctly and the way that we would encourage our clients to do it, it should not come across as being promotional or being salesy. It should be direct. It should be about telling that story in a clear way. So one example, we had a client that was working on RFP and they came out very, very clearly and just said, "We are higher end. We cost more, but here's why." Then it's just about explaining why do they cost more? What is their track record. Their expertise? Is it they have done this many times before? Is it because they're going to spend and give a lot more attention to this client and to this project than others?
Michael Zipursky (10:23):
That's to me, what is important. If you were to make a decision or if you even look around you in the marketplace at who typically succeeds, it's not the commodity, it's not the person that you can't remember. All the people that we remember, whether they are artists or they're singers or they're athletes, typically people that stand out. They've done something to differentiate themselves. And so that's what you want to do in business too.
Michael Zipursky (10:48):
Nobody wants to engage with a boring brand. Nobody wants to engage with someone that is just the same as somebody else. So if you're not telling your story, nobody else is going to it for you. But telling your story should not be at least in the world that we're in Lisa, it's not about being salesy and promotional. Nobody likes that. We all get in a day with all kinds of spammy messages on LinkedIn and other platforms. Nobody needs more of that. But you have an opportunity to tell your story. And the more that you lean into that, the more powerful it will become and the greater the results you'll see from it.
Lisa Rehurek (11:17):
Wouldn't you say too, that people still, I mean, people buy an emotion. They're not buying on... I mean, facts and figures are important and all of that, but at the end of the day, would you agree that most people buy on emotion?
Michael Zipursky (11:31):
100%. I think facts and figures is what gets you to the common denominator. So you need to have certain things and you this much better than I do in terms of the world of RFPs, but there's certain things that need to be in there that if they're not in there, you're just crossed off a list because you miss something important. But that's what everybody needs to have. So don't think about, "Oh yeah, I have everything that needs to be in here." Like great, welcome to level one.
Michael Zipursky (11:55):
That's not where you win. To get to that next level, you need to do something different. You need to stand out. And that's where telling the story, sharing examples, case studies, results, using language that stands out, language that conveys confidence. That's what can really make the difference between what you have and what others are putting out there.
Lisa Rehurek (12:16):
You said something interesting a couple of minutes ago about the client that you had that basically said, 'We're higher end." What do you think about the objection that people say they get that it was all based on price?
Michael Zipursky (12:31):
RFP type of world. Yes. I understand that that does exist. We're certainly not specialists in RFP. Most of our clients, some are in the RFP world most tend to focus on business that they have more control on where they can interact directly and build a relationship directly with that single or group of buyers. But I do really believe that it's very rarely about price. Even when they're... Let's just take an organization. Maybe it's a nonprofit that is looking to hire a consultant or a firm for help with fundraising or to help build their building.
Michael Zipursky (13:04):
Yes. I mean, they might have a budget and they may not be able to go above that budget, but it's not only going to be about price because if you can come in and let's say you are the higher price provider, and if you can demonstrate why a lower price may actually be less beneficial to that organization and you can make it not about you, but make it about them and truly show them, then all of a sudden it's not about price, because nobody wants to be cheap. Nobody wants to spend less money and have a poor result.
Michael Zipursky (13:31):
If you can show them or if your competitors can show them that they can and spend less money and get an even better result than that's fine. But your job should be to really focus on the value, not just on the price. Very rarely it's about price because in most cases, even if they're making a decision about price, it's all about how can you relocate those resources. There's probably money being spent in other areas of the organization and if you can show them, they can see a great enough return on investment and a great enough contribution to value and improvement, then an organization will almost always be open to reallocating some resources or making some shifts to be able to move to that higher performance option.
Lisa Rehurek (14:12):
Yeah. It's so true in the RFP space, honestly, too, because it used to be that we'd see RFPs 50%, 60% cost. Now it's 40, 30, 20% cost. I think because people have gotten burned. Let's just get the low cost provider and they're not going to give us what we need. It makes me crazy when people just assume it's price and just walk away but there's so much to what you just said about how you can communicate your value even in a written RFP, you can communicate your value and they will figure out how to make it work if you build your case enough, in my opinion.
Michael Zipursky (14:49):
Totally. The other thing I would just add as well is I think there's a massive opportunity that not enough people pay attention to, which is what do you do before the RFP?
Lisa Rehurek (14:57):
Exactly. Yeah.
Michael Zipursky (14:58):
Like how are you developing your intellectual property? How are you taking steps to build your brand, create more reputation and recognition in the marketplace? Because that plays a really big role in the decision that any buyer is going to make. If they've never heard of you, that's going to be very different than if you come in, you're you're priced higher, but they've seen you everywhere and they've heard about you from other people. That's going to influence their decision. That's another area that people should be spending some time on.
Lisa Rehurek (15:25):
I 100% agree. We always tell people like, "If you're bidding cold, you've never had a conversation with them. They don't know who you are. You're going to lose." Less than 5% chance of winning. You might get lucky every once in a blue moon, but for the most part, no. So that leads me to a question of we got listeners that are saying, "Hey, we don't have any credibility in the marketplace. We don't really have that. How do we get it?" I know that's a pretty big question, but what would you say to that?
Michael Zipursky (15:50):
Most often when some says that, they're not digging deep enough into their past experiences. If you're brand spanking new, you have zero experience running your business. Like you've shifted from the corporate world into consulting or into providing whatever it is that you're providing, sure that can become more challenging. There's a lot of things that you can do in that situation. It might be to take on some pro bono work or discounted work at the start just to be able to create more case studies and more results. That's one option.
Michael Zipursky (16:17):
But the other one that I really encourage clients often to look at is don't only think about what have you done in your current business? Think about what you've done over your career. When you're working in an organization, how many different initiatives or projects have you been a part of and what kind of results and achievements and success do you have there? Because you can pull that in. You should not lie ever and say like, "This was a client of mine." If you worked at Microsoft, say it. Like working with Microsoft or during my time at Microsoft, here's what I did or I led this project.
Michael Zipursky (16:50):
So you can still pull on all these different experiences that you have or pull in different experiences that your team has. And again, it's always about, don't try and compensate for a weakness, try and figure out how you can really focus on a strength. So there might be things that you may not have as much experience in this one specific area, but you have all this other stuff, but maybe it could be a benefit to the buyer that you're bringing a fresh perspective.
Michael Zipursky (17:12):
Maybe they don't want somebody who's done a whole bunch of these things before, because they always get the same results. Maybe they actually want. Some, some new ideas and you can support that with other success that you've had that is relevant or connected to that. So it's all about creative thinking. Don't just accept, "Oh, I don't have experience. I can't make this work." There's always ways to make things work. You just need to be open to it and be resourceful and ask for help.
Lisa Rehurek (17:36):
You just reminded me of two quick stories that I want to tell. One was that I had hired a storytelling coach for me, because I was like, "I don't have any stories." And she was like, "Yes you do." So I hired her and she extracted out amazing stories from my life that I just thought they were not important or nobody would care and the way that she related them. So I would say also it's probably pretty important to bring an objective person in to help with that. Would you agree with that?
Michael Zipursky (18:06):
Yeah, very much so. I mean, I think that's why your company exists. That's why our company exists. That's why in my case, and likely in yours too least, like we also work with coaches. We pay other people to learn from them. I was just talking to you about a program that I was in your neck of the woods for recently. That's something that we always do. To be able to grow and to expand, you can't just sit in a box by yourself trying to figure things out. If you really want to see success faster, then you want to find people, organizations, mentors, coaches, whatever it might be that have been where you want to get to, and that can help you to get there without making so many mistakes.
Lisa Rehurek (18:42):
Yeah. In fact, I had a coach that once told me, if you don't feel like you have what you need, write down your dream scenario. What do you want to be able to say and then reverse engineer and go make it happen. Again, you're not claiming that until it happens, but you're writing it down. This is really what I want to be able to say and then reverse engineer and go figure out how to make all that happen.
Michael Zipursky (19:08):
Yeah. I think that's a great approach. I mean, or figure out was that Dan Sullivan has a book that came out last year, I believe, which is Who Not How. So instead of always thinking about like, "How do I do something?" Think about who, because there's always going to be someone out there that can help you to achieve what you want that has likely done it before. And rather than you trying to figure it out yourself, just ask yourself and look for who's already done it and try and connect with that person.
Lisa Rehurek (19:35):
Brilliant. I love it. How does authority fit into all of this? I mean, is that everything that we're talking about? Is there something different that we haven't really hit on there around authority?
Michael Zipursky (19:46):
I think the big thing with authority is it's about developing your intellectual property. It's taking all the experience and knowledge and expertise that you have and putting it out there into the world. And whether that is through a podcast, through videos, through articles, white papers, a book, articles and trade publications, webinars. There's so many different ways to build it, but at the end of the day, it's all about, does your ideal client, does the marketplace that you want to serve, do they know that you exist?
Michael Zipursky (20:12):
And not only do they know that you exist, but do they know that you can help them to solve the problems that they have or help them to reach the goals and ambitions that they desire? If they don't know that, then the chance of you benefiting from that it's like very often clients or consultants will say, "I want to generate more leads and more requires. Well, what are you doing to get out in their marketplace?" "Oh, like I'm on LinkedIn sending a few messages here and there or I put this article on my blog." "Well, how many people come to your blog?" "I get about 50 people a week."
Michael Zipursky (20:43):
You need to think bigger. You want to get in front of your ideal clients and you want do it consistently. So you want to figure out what is the most direct path to get in front of my ideal clients. And an example of that would be rather than just writing on your own blog, write an article and get it into a trade publication that hundreds of thousands of your ideal clients read. So part of it is intellectual property, developing that IP and your ideas and getting your opinions, your viewpoints, your perspectives. Ideally it could be polarizing.
Michael Zipursky (21:11):
So it's not just the same status quo information that everybody else is sharing, but you really bring in your viewpoint, you bring in your stories, but the other big, big one is, is the C word, which is consistency. You don't take your podcast, for example, or our podcast, for example, you don't start a podcast, do a couple of episodes and stop and say like, "Oh yeah, it's not working. I only have a few people listening right now." You do it consistently. And so whatever method works for you, whether it is video or audio or the written form.
Michael Zipursky (21:38):
Find something that it can be a strength for you that you can really build around and then do it consistently, because the more that you do it, the more that people will actually recognize you and you. And then when they have that issue, then they're going to come to you. But that doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't happen without sharing your ideas and your perspectives. It doesn't happen without you doing it consistently.
Lisa Rehurek (21:58):
I want to also say that it doesn't all lead to a direct sale. So we'll have conversations with people about those marketing avenues and they're like, "Well I blogged for a year, but I never got any clients out of it." I'm like, "But it's not about a lead." There's a difference between the lead generation source versus the visibility authority building credibility source.
Michael Zipursky (22:20):
Yeah. So very often the authority building activities like a podcast, like videos, like articles, thing of that nature are going to be harder to attribute a direct sale from. If we take our podcast, we know that our podcast, the Consulting Success podcast leads to clients, but we can't say, "Oh yeah, we had five people listening to this episode and those five people became..." It just doesn't work like that. So you have to trust the process. Look around on you. Look at the proof and there's a reason why people have podcasts. There's a reason why people do YouTube videos. There's a reason why people write articles or write books.
Michael Zipursky (22:57):
These are all things that work to not only build your authority, but more importantly, to deliver value to the marketplace. The more value that you deliver, the more that you help people, the more that those people will know again, that you exist will appreciate what you're giving them and will think, "If I can get so much value from reading that one book or reading that article or listening to that one podcast, imagine what it would be like to work with that group of people."
Michael Zipursky (23:23):
And so yes, authority building, this is more of a long-term mindset. It's not a quick pick up the phone call somebody or send email, but that's why I often recommend to people Lisa, when they're getting started or depending on where they are in what we call the marketing maturity model. If somebody already has a lot of leads, then they should be spending the majority of their time early on or they should spend the majority of their time around marketing on longer-term activities like a podcast, writing books, because they can be evergreen?
Michael Zipursky (23:52):
You can write an article, put on your website or on trade publication and have somebody years later come to it, see it and reach out to you. But if you're earlier stage in the marketing maturity model, meaning you don't yet have enough leads. If you only focus on writing or putting up a podcast or doing videos, that stuff can take many, many months for you to actually see the impact of it. So earlier stage, if you don't have as many leads, then you want to focus more of your percentage of time on the shorter term activities.
Michael Zipursky (24:18):
Things like sending emails on LinkedIn or making phone calls or leveraging your network. But you should always be doing both of these things. It's just the percentage of time that you should spend on each will vary depending on how mature your marketing is.
Lisa Rehurek (24:31):
Yeah. It's so important and it's interesting too, as again, our listeners are thinking about this in the context of RFPs likely and all of that leads to that credibility and authority building in your RFP. If you've got that, if you're in the marketplace, they're going to know who you are, they're going to be familiar with you. You're going to be able to claim industry leading expert in. There's so many different things that you can do to use that. So I think that's really valuable information.
Lisa Rehurek (25:00):
So let me ask you this for yourself personally, you and your partner, when you started your consult firm, did you have any big hiccups around this? Is there a personal triumph that you can share, just so that our listeners realize that you're human too?
Michael Zipursky (25:15):
Yeah, well, I'm certainly human. So yeah, my cousin, Sam and I, again, so we've been co-founders in multiple companies together and there's been so many lessons learned. I never look at things as mistake. There's been so many lessons learned over the years and that's what entrepreneurship is all about. But I think one of the biggest ones that we've really taken a hold of and we've been working it into and through our whole company with all of our team members is really around telling our story.
Michael Zipursky (25:43):
You know, very often back in the day when I was running one our companies in Japan and I was in my 20s and I was surrounded in the boardrooms with Japanese executives that were in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and in some cases, even their 70s. I'm the one white guy standing out. It was very challenging. I wanted to put on the aura and the image of I'm the professional guy. I'm wearing the suit. I'm trying to look good. I know it all and that's the worst thing that you could possibly do, but that's because I didn't have the confidence. I didn't have the self-esteem at that time.
Michael Zipursky (26:15):
I didn't think that it was okay to be vulnerable. I didn't think that it was okay to say, 'Actually, I don't know all of those answers." Fast forward, many years later, what I've recognized more and more is that the more open you are, the more vulnerable you are. The more that you tell your story, the more that people will actually connect with you. It's very challenging to connect with somebody that doesn't seem human. That just seems like, "Oh yeah, they're just perfect." But the more that you let your guard down and the way I like to describe this, or to illustrate this is, think about the people that you have the deepest relationships with. Your best friends, loved ones.
Michael Zipursky (26:50):
What makes them your best friends or what makes them loved ones is usually that you can let your guard down. That you can just say, what's on your mind. You can just talk the talk and they do the same with you. That open communication is what makes or strengthens that bond. Well, it's the same thing in business. We often think that business and personal is so different, but it's not. Because at the end of the day, the reason why you're going to engage with an organization is because you feel that you can trust them. You feel like what they're saying, that they can help you to do, they will actually do.
Michael Zipursky (27:18):
The way to create that higher level of trust is by being very vulnerable, by being very open. Talking about lessons learned, talking about things that didn't work and how you've now made things work. And so what we've really tried to do, and in fact, several years ago, we spent a bunch of money and a bunch of time creating a little mini documentary that talks about Sam and my story. It goes back talking about our grandparents and our parents and where we grew up and challenges and living from countries.
Michael Zipursky (27:44):
We did that because we wanted to tell our story in a way that we've never told it before. And there's been so many people who have reached out. Many who have become clients, others that are just in our community, who will comment on that video. It's about 12 minutes long, but it just opens up our world. And so everything that we do, we try now be much more open and vulnerable. So I think that's a massive opportunity for every single one of us.
Lisa Rehurek (28:09):
I totally agree with you. I think also that vulnerability has become more acceptable in say the past five, 10 years than it ever was before and I agree with you. In fact, we were just working on RFP a few months back, and we were talking about going to have all the answers all the time. So what are you going to do if you don't have the answers? Because they had a huge pool of opportunity to go out and get answers from experts. I think people just appreciate the realness of it. So I appreciate that.
Lisa Rehurek (28:38):
I want to talk to you a little bit more about the struggles that people have with branding, particularly the smaller the business. Because there's only so much time in the day and there's only so much money, but before we get into that, let me just take a quick pause for a commercial break. Everybody, we will be right back with Michael Zipursky.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
You're listening to The RFP Success Show with host, Lisa Rehurek. Listen, if your mind keeps wandering to your looming RFP that's nearing deadline, go to getrfphelp.com now to take your quick assessment so you can send your next response with confidence.
Lisa Rehurek (29:11):
All right, everybody welcome. Welcome back, Michael. We were having some really great conversation right before the break, and I wanted to dive into just a conversation around the struggling business that's like, I don't have time or money to market or to build my brand or to do everything that you're talking about. Do you have any words of wisdom for those folks?
Michael Zipursky (29:33):
Yeah. So this will really depend on your stage, your resources. A lot of factors come into play. But the comment that you made, Lisa about somebody saying, "Oh, I don't have time to market." That essentially means I don't have time to be in business. Because if you don't market your business, you can be a true expert. You can be the best in the world at what you do, but if people don't know that you exist, you're not going to have clients. You're not going to have projects. You're not going to have money. You're not going to have a business.
Michael Zipursky (29:57):
So every single one of us is in the marketing business, whether we believe it or not. And that doesn't mean that you have to be trained as a marketer or as a salesperson. It simply means that you should be focused on creating conversations with those that you want to serve and add value for. The more that you focus on having conversations, the more business that you're going to generate. So even if you're uncomfortable with this idea of selling and promotion, don't think about it like that.
Michael Zipursky (30:21):
Instead, shift your mindset to really focus on how can you add value for those that you care about and those that you want to serve. That for many people is liberating and allows you to focus more on that. So that would be number one. Number two is if you're a very early stage and you're saying, "Well, yeah here, Lisa and Michael are talking about branding and things that look nice and all that good stuff. I don't have the time. I don't have the money or maybe instead of marketing, I should just be working on making my website look nice." I would say to you, listen, I've seen many, many examples and we've had many clients over the years who have very solid six figure businesses and their websites suck. Like they just look terrible.
Michael Zipursky (31:00):
So you don't need to have the nicest looking brand, the sharpest cutting edge website, the most beautiful logo to generate business. Nobody's going to say, "Oh yeah, this company has a great website. Let's now use them. That can play a role and there's a factor there, but what they look at more is first of all, all the other stuff? So if you're good at what you do and say, there's you and a competitor, and you both have the same qualifications, you're both telling the same story, but your website sucks and theirs looks great. Well, they're going to have an edge.
Michael Zipursky (31:30):
So that's where branding makes the difference. But it's not the majority of the difference. The difference is your expertise, your intellectual property and the messaging that you're putting into the marketplace. The way that you're going about building relationships and building trust. That's what matters most and that's why, again, you can see many people being very successful without all the nice, shiny, beautiful branding materials.
Michael Zipursky (31:54):
However, when you get to a certain level and everything else is being equal, yeah, you do want to work on updating your website or your logo because the more professional and not just professional, but the more powerful the image that you can create in the marketplace, the better because people do see things. When they see a nice looking website or nice looking logo or nice looking materials, that says to them quality. That says to them professionalism. That says to them like these people are good at what they do.
Michael Zipursky (32:21):
So it's important, but it's not where you should put the majority of your focus in the early stages. But you should always put your focus on marketing and getting out into the marketplace and having conversations with ideal clients.
Lisa Rehurek (32:32):
Yeah. You said something at the beginning of the show where you said that you all did a little bit of stuff putting yourselves out there in the marketplace and the market came back to you and said, here's what we want. So you didn't waste your time building things that nobody would buy. I wish that I could say that early in my business. I was just the opposite. I was worrying about all those bells and whistles, but I love your approach because it's like, okay. They said, "Hey, do you have a course on this?" "No, but we'll build you one." "Do you consult on this?" "No, but we will. Like, we'll start doing it." So it's certainly better to have those conversations and find out what the market is dictating before you spend too much time.
Michael Zipursky (33:08):
The one thing there, Lisa is that the reason why we were able to do that is because in a previous business, we made that mistake. We did go ahead and invest 20 plus years ago, it was probably $25,000 into building this wonderful app and community that we thought the world wanted. And then we didn't unfortunately spend time asking the people that would become clients, "Is this what you really want?" So we launched it. We pushed our developers to make it great. Every feature, all the bells and whistles when we launched. And then we actually pulled the community. They said, "Oh, all we really want is 5% of what you've built."
Lisa Rehurek (33:44):
[inaudible 00:33:44].
Michael Zipursky (33:45):
Yeah, but it was a great lesson and we were committed to making it work. And so we were able to adjust and to shift and transition and carve things out. We built that business to be quite profitable and years later sold it. And so it was a good experience, but that lesson is one that as you mentioned, really stuck with us, and it's why we're very big proponents and often our clients here say, imperfect action. Don't wait for things to be just perfect. If you're waiting that long, then you're probably waiting too long. It's all about getting out into the marketplace, seeing what works, what doesn't, and then using that to move forward, make better decisions.
Lisa Rehurek (34:19):
Yeah. I love that. If we go back to the branding conversation and thinking about authority building and credibility in the marketplace and being seen and being out there, how much do you think fear has a play in people holding back in doing some of that stuff?
Michael Zipursky (34:35):
Yeah. I think fear is the biggest culprits and reasons that people hesitant eight to take action. What happens if my messaging doesn't resonate? What happens if my messaging is to specialized and specific and I lose a big potential pool of clients? What if my whatever, fill in the blank. That's often what holds people back. But again, when you study the most successful entrepreneurs of our time, or even before our time, you'll almost always see that those people took chances.
Michael Zipursky (35:08):
Those people did not just sit in their office, toiling away, working on making their business plan as beautiful as possible, or updating their website or the colors or changing fonts or doing all the things that are busy work that often make us feel like we're being productive because we're working on things. But the problem is we're building things, but we're actually getting out of the proverbial building. And that's where the magic happens. That's where even if you're still on a Zoom call, you still want to get out of that building to have a conversation.
Michael Zipursky (35:38):
So that's the big thing that I believe is that yes, fear does hold people back. But if you want to be successful in business, if you want to be an entrepreneur, then you need to become comfortable with the idea that you're going to rub up against your fears. You need to put yourself in a position where you will feel uncomfortable, because if you're are not feeling uncomfortable, it means you're not pushing. You're not trying new things. And when you try new things, when you go out of the safe Harbor into the choppy waters, into the zone of the unknown, that's where now all of a sudden, you start to really see new things. You see new opportunities, you have breakthroughs in your business. You create new sources or you are able to capture new sources of value. And it's because you're doing things differently.
Lisa Rehurek (36:22):
It circles back actually to the conversation we were having a few minutes ago about vulnerability, and being very authentic in how we put ourselves out there. Do you think that there is also a huge fear in people being authentically themselves and figuring out how to tie that authenticity to why does that even matter in my business? What do those things have to do with each other?
Michael Zipursky (36:46):
Yeah. It's a really great question and the word authenticity to me is such a interesting one, because if you break it down, to be authentic, I know it's very popular for people to use that term. But if you're not being authentic, that doesn't mean that you're just telling a lie. It means you're not telling the truth. One of my aunts used to say to me, because I would say to be honest, auntie Nancy and she'd say, "Well, Michael, why do you need to say to be honest? Aren't you always honest?" I was like, "Well, that's so true. I don't need to say to be honest, because I should always be honest."
Michael Zipursky (37:13):
I think authenticity is the same thing. We should all just be authentic. It's not sign that we need to strive for. We should just be ourselves. And of course that is easier said than done, but why build a business or why create a life if you can't be yourself? One of the biggest things, Lisa that I focus on with clients is this idea that we should all build businesses that support our lifestyle, not the other way around. We shouldn't have to make the level of sacrifice or take time away from loved ones or things that really matter to us deep down inside to try and support a business.
Michael Zipursky (37:47):
We should craft our business and structure our businesses so it supports the lifestyle that we want to have. I think that is what authenticity, if we want to call it that, that's what it's really about. Is being true to yourself and getting very clear on what is the lifestyle that you want to have. What do you truly want to create? How do you want to spend your time? And then once you're clear on that, then you can figure out how to build your business, how to communicate that. But the more that you are true to yourself and the more that you speak what's on your mind, you will find that naturally that will repel some people.
Michael Zipursky (38:15):
And that might be scary. You, you might think, "Well, I'm going to lose part of the marketplace." You don't need to all of the marketplace. The most successful businesses or companies in the world don't have the whole marketplace. I mean, take a great example that might be Microsoft and Apple. They both have computers. They both have multi-billion dollar market caps or trillion dollar market caps or whatever it is. There's enough room out there for more than one company. So don't be worried about polarizing and repelling people because the opposite is also true.
Michael Zipursky (38:45):
The more clear you are with your point of view, the more that you will attract certain people. So your message might repel at some, but it's also going to attract others. And the ones that it attracts are the ones that truly will become great clients and a great part of your community, but sitting in the middle where you don't clearly state anything is the worst place to be.
Lisa Rehurek (39:05):
So how does that translate to a company that's an existing company, it's a bigger company. It's not like we're not talking to the owner or the founder, but the people listening here they're responding to RFPs, they are still needing to have an authentic voice in the way that they represent the company and the authenticity of what the company represents. How does that translate into that?
Michael Zipursky (39:28):
Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. So if I'm in that role right now, let's say I'm the one writing the RFP. I'm not the CEO. I'm working the organization. The first thing that I would probably want to do is go and sit down with the leadership team or with the CEO or with the founders, or maybe if it's a family run business or it's been around for a long time, like go back to the past CEOs. I'd really want to get an idea of what are the values of our company? What really makes us different? I'd want to look at where are we successful?
Michael Zipursky (39:54):
I'd look at all different RFPs or projects that over the last 10 or 20 years that were a great success. I'd want to look at the ones that we weren't successful in. I want to analyze and talk to the different people involved in each one of those to figure out why were we so successful here? What worked? Why did we win this? And why did we lose this or why was this unprofitable? And this was like really profitable. I'd want to go through all of that and then also get very clear on the values and the story of the business.
Michael Zipursky (40:16):
So that one I'd probably as an employee or as a team member, I'd be so much happier and more excited to be working at that company because now I truly understand the mission, the vision, the purpose, values, but also in knowing that now I can translate that into my copy, into my writing, into submitting that RFP, where I can tell that in a much more powerful and compelling way.
Lisa Rehurek (40:39):
That's so beautiful. I love it so much. It's interesting we do that a lot of times with our clients and it's amazing how shocked they are to have people ask them those questions and how they do not have the answers to a lot of those questions. It makes them think, and it does make a much more powerful story, whether it's in a written RFP, whether it's in a conversational sales discussion.
Lisa Rehurek (41:03):
I love how you said it's going to excite... I would be much more excited to write versus just writing the answer to a really boring technical question. Let's weave some of that in. It's much more exciting. I love that. Thank you. All right. I'm going to pivot just a little bit here. What's a sign of a really bad brand? What's a sign that your brand is off? It's not working for you.
Michael Zipursky (41:28):
Yeah. So I think there's multiple things that we would want to look at, but one is that it's not being specific. It's not targeting a true ideal client. It's too general. It's too casting too wide of a net. I think when you do that, you're in no, no person's land? You're trying to be like a Jack of all trades and a master of none or however you want to describe that. That is for most organizations, one of the biggest ch challenges because to your mindset, it can feel like narrowing in.
Michael Zipursky (41:56):
It means we have less opportunity, but as we just talked about narrowing in, specializing is actually where you can capture more market by being that expert, by being that specialist, by differentiating yourself from others that are trying to go much, much broader.
Lisa Rehurek (42:09):
It feels counterintuitive, right?
Michael Zipursky (42:11):
Totally. Yeah. Very much so. I mean, that would be the first one. The other is also just if the message isn't clear. Like very often when we look at client's messaging, it is very, very watered down. It is full of techno speak or industry buzzwords. It's really important that you have a message that will resonate with your ideal client. That will not only to get their attention and interest, but really connects with them and that when they hear that message or see that message, the first thing that they think to themselves is wow, this person or this company is talking to me. That's exactly what I'm dealing with right now. That's exactly what's been on my mind. That's exactly what we need to try and figure out.
Michael Zipursky (42:49):
The truth is that you can only create what we call a magnetic message. The only way you really have that magnetic message that resonates with your ideal clients is by being very clear and specific on who your ideal clients are. So we take our clients through this process called ideal client clarity, where you really work down to get very clear on who your ideal client is. Because if you're not clear on who your ideal client is, you can't have messaging that speaks directly to those ideal clients.
Michael Zipursky (43:13):
So those would be two things. And then the other one from a branding perspective and it's directly connected, but it's just like being memorable. If someone says, "What does The RFP Success Company do?" I mean, you have a great name, because it pretty much says what you do. And we try and do the same thing, Consulting Success, but very often people don't really know. I think that's also part of branding is how memorable is your brand? How easy is it to talk about and how well do you to understand what it is that you truly do?
Lisa Rehurek (43:37):
It's so interesting that I've always tried to come up with kitchy names for my businesses. I used to have a business called Miss Simplicity and it told you what I did, but what's really interesting about the business now and you probably have the same thing is when I go to conferences, I always make a point of figuring out how to get on the microphone. If they've got a Q&A period, I will find a question because as soon as I say the name of my company, people will throw business cards at me. It's like being a rockstar.
Michael Zipursky (44:06):
Yeah. Well, I mean you saw a really important pain point, which is that so few people go after RFPs. It's a big source, and in some cases, just a source of business for them, yet they don't know how to do that effectively. So you're serving a great need.
Lisa Rehurek (44:23):
Yeah. Well, thank you as are you, as are you. So Michael, this has been fantastic. Do you have any last words of wisdom for our listeners? You just gave three really great pointers. So that was really great. We'll make sure we have those in the show notes, but anything else you want to share with our listeners?
Michael Zipursky (44:38):
Yeah. I mean, from an RFP perspective again, I think the biggest opportunity is to tell your story. And so if you want to empower, if you want to start seeing greater results, the one thing that I would encourage everyone to is to work through that process of trying to better understand your company, better understand what success looks like, what are your values, and then start to weave that story into every communication and every RFP that you do because that will right away differentiate you.
Michael Zipursky (45:07):
Most RFPs that are sent in are very dry. They're academic or they're technical. They're not interesting to read, but if you can make yours interesting to read, if you can bring a viewpoint, that's going to be not only more enjoyable for the person reading the RFP, but also will typically lead to greater results.
Lisa Rehurek (45:22):
You know what I love too about everything that you're saying is that it's so in line with everything that we preach here at our company. And if you read my book, there's so many of the same comments in there. So I love this so much because it works. Everything that you're saying will definitely be very helpful for our listeners. So thank you so much for being here. And everybody, information about how to get in touch with Michael and everything that he's referenced here will be in the show notes. So, Michael, thank you again for being our guest today. It's been a pleasure to have you.
Michael Zipursky (45:52):
Thanks so much, Lisa. Great being with you.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
This has been another episode of The RFP Success Show with Lisa Rehurek, eight time author, speaker, and CEO of The RFP Success Company. Thank you for joining us. If you have feedback on today's episode, email us at podcast@rfpsuccess.com. No matter your business size, industry, if you have an in house RFP team or need outside support, The RFP Success Company helps increase RFP win ratios by 10%, 20% and even 50%. Learn more at therfpsuccesscompany.com